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When
characters are wronged by others, how do they respond to their enemies? (Think along the lines of justice, mercy, and
grace). God tells his people not to take revenge. Is there revenge taken in the film or
justice? What is the difference (bonus points
to someone who actually explains the difference well)? When commenting, back up your statements with
examples (from the movie and/or from Scripture).
In the movie, it says how Inigo Montoya has spent the past 20 years searching for the 6-fingered-man that had killed his father. From the line "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die", you can immediately know that Inigo wants to kill this man. Of course he does. Almost anybody would, including me. Though, that would be a sin, because that right there is revenge. Revenge and justice are very similar in some circumstances, including this one. The difference is, revenge is taking matters into your own hands. Justice is letting God settle the matter the way He sees fit. Therefore, Inigo isn't giving the 6-fingered-man justice, even though the guy IS getting what I think he deserved. Inigo should've considered God in his situation and prayed that God did what was right, rather than killing a man himself.
ReplyDeleteWonderful thoughts. Does the Bible say anything about justice/revenge? If so, where? How might those passages help/hurt your argument?
DeleteTrust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths -Proverbs 3:5-6. This verse talks about trusting God, and a time you really need to trust God is when someone does you wrong. Revenge is leaning on your own understanding, and not trusting God to make your paths straight. When you do trust God, you know that he will do whatever is right, even if it doesn't seem right or fair to you. The thing is, God always knows what's right, and that's exactly why you have to trust him.
DeleteRomans 12:19
Delete"A new command I give you; Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."
This verse is saying how you should love others just as God has loved you. Obviously our love for one another is not unconditional, however we can do our best to imitate God's love for us. This verse can also be related to revenge. We shouldn't seek revenge on others even if they have done wrong to us. Is seeking revenge showing love to others? Revenge is not a christianly action. Instead of instantly thinking about revenge, we should think if the action we are about to do would be demonstrating God's love for us.
There are examples of both revenge and justice in this movie. Throughout this movie, Inigo Montoya is trying to kill the six-fingered man that had killed his father many years earlier. This is definitely an example of revenge. Inigo has a famous line that he says throughout the film: "My name in Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die." This line gives you an idea of the revenge that Inigo seeks. When he eventually finds the six-fingered man and is trying the kill him, he repeats this line over and over and it gives him strength. However, revenge isn't biblical. God says in the bible that he will do what is best for us. I think the main difference between revenge and justice is that revenge is much more selfish. You aren't trusting God when you want revenge. You aren't trusting that God will do what is best for you. Romans 12:19 says : "Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, 'Vengeance is mine, I will repay,' says the Lord." As Christians, we need to not be selfish and choose revenge but put the justice into God's hands.
ReplyDeleteGod knows that all men are sinful and deserve justice, which would be to die. God, though came and delivered us all so we don't get what we deserve, but get to live eternally. When the prince has his princess stolen from his own thieves, he wants and does kill Westley (luckily, he was only mostly dead). He does evil with murder and God despises that sin. I think the revenge in this movie is with Inigo, and I think revenge is when we see the sin and don't think about our own. Then, we want to repay that evil with evil of our own. We don't trust God to punish, but punish ourselves. Justice is only what we deserve, and God doesn't give us that, though he is a fair judge of our actions. God "made us a little lower than the heavenly beings, and crowned us with glory and honor." I think there is mostly revenge shown here in this movie
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean “He wants and does kill Westley (luckily, he was only mostly dead). He does evil with murder and God despises that sin.” Wesley never died in the movie, because at the end they are riding on horses into the sunlight while kissing. This means that he was living because he could do some sort of action. And when you say “Luckily he was only mostly dead.” Isn’t this the factor that saved his life so he could be with and save his true love Buttercup. And finally when you say “He does evil with murder and God despises that sin.” Doesn’t God despise all sin equally, because in his eyes if I lie or steal a single penny he sees that the same as mass murder. For it says in James 2:10 “For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.” So this means that if I amke that lie it is the same as murder.
DeleteIn the last sentence I meant to say make not amke
Delete.
Deletethey give them justice they rarely ever give them grace or mercy and if they do give them mercy is mostly torturing or becoming a slave mostly never grace and justice is to murder them. when the six fingered man killed his father he wanted to hunt him down and kill him with no mercy. yes there is revenge in the movie revenge is when you get someone back for doing something to u. justice is when someone gets what the deserve.
ReplyDeleteI think that there is also another place we could find revenge in this movie. So, Humperdinck likes Buttercup for her beauty, as well as his own benefits. Such as murdering Buttercup once they were married just to start a war. Meanwhile, Wesley also loves Buttercup, but Buttercup loves Wesley back. This obviously makes Humperdinck jealous, and does not help Wesley since he is the Underdog. Humperdinck already wants Wesley to die for causing trouble and making Humperdinck look like a fool. Anyway, revenge comes up when Humperdinck wants to kill/torture Wesley. Luckily Wesley has Fezzik and Inigo to help/protect him. Humperdinck deals with this by ordering his servant to torture Wesley. This gets worse when Buttercup threatens to kill herself unless she can be with Wesley. Then Humperdinck loses it and decides to just kill Wesley with "The Machine". This is where Fezzik and Inigo come to Wesley's rescue and revive him with the help of an elderly couple.
ReplyDeleteGood point Izzy! That is also a case of revenge.
Deletei agree with izzy with her thoughts of of the movie and the revenge part of the movie that she said it was really thought out thoughts that she had they were great
Deletewhen the 6 fingered man killed inigos dad, he spent 20 years learning to fence so that he could kill him. I think inigo took revenge rather than justice because he took matters into his own hands instead of letting God deal with the situation accordingly.
ReplyDeleteBlake - can you think of some Scripture that applies here?
DeleteRomans 12:19
DeleteI think that when Indigi killed the six fingered man that it was revenge because he didnt rely on God to help but only on himself, even though it was wrong to kill the six fingered man, most people would actually want revenge on someone that did something like that. Justice means getting something you deserve but that does not mean to get what you deserve because of something you did in the past. Also we are supposed to forgive even if we dont really want to
ReplyDeleteI think it was more revenge rather than justice because after the six fingered man killed his father, Inigo hunted the man the man down, wasting his life trying to kill him. I agree with Christine, he didn't rely on God, but himself. It's terrible the man killed his father.A lot of people would want revenge on that but the past is behind us and always forgive and forget. Revenge is when someone does something to you that's hurtful for example, and you try to do something worse back to them. Justice is when someone gets what they deserve.
ReplyDeleteDidn't the six-fingered-man deserve death? What is the difference?
DeleteThe six-fingered-man deserved death, so death would be justice. Inigo wanted to murder him and take matters into his own hands, but it's God's job to judge us, not our own. Inigo's bloodlust was the reason it was revenge.
DeleteHe didn't really deserve it but Mikey's right, he should've let God take it into his own hands. I also agree with Mikey for the rest
DeleteAlexis, we live in a world of sin, so we all deserve to die as punishment for our sins. I agree with both of you except Alexis’s statement that the six-fingered man did not deserve to die. We live in a fallen world, so every movie takes place in a fallen world, and so the punishment for sin is the same in all circumstances: we all deserve to die because of sin. That is God’s justice to give, so we should not kill others, for that would be taking God’s job. I thought of a biblicalish definition of revenge: taking away God’s right to give justice and using it sinfully for your own benefit. Inigo took matters into his own hands, so he took God’s job of giving justice, so it would be revenge.
DeleteJustice is making something right according to the law or God’s law-restitution. Revenge is getting even for a wrong done to you (or someone else) or perhaps getting “more than even,” repaying evil with evil.
ReplyDeleteExodus 23:2-8 says, “Always tell the truth in court, even if everyone else is dishonest and stands in the way of justice. And don't favor the poor, simply because they are poor. If you find an ox or a donkey that has wandered off, take it back where it belongs, even if the owner is your enemy. If a donkey is overloaded and falls down, you must do what you can to help, even if it belongs to someone who doesn't like you. Make sure that the poor are given equal justice in court. Don't bring false charges against anyone or sentence an innocent person to death. I won't forgive you if you do. Don't accept bribes. Judges are blinded and justice is twisted by bribes. ”
Revenge is not according to God’s plan. Leviticus 19:18 says, “Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD”
In the movie, Inigo wants to avenge his father’s death-repay evil with evil. It seems he’s satisfied once he kills Count Rugen. He was not interested in seeing that his father’s killer receives justice according to the law or makes restitution.
Explain how that first verse fits with the point you are making.
DeleteIt is one of the verses from the Bible that support the idea that justice is making something right according to the law. Justice does not mean favoring a certain person or group or giving them special privileges, nor does it mean getting back at someone. It is simply - has the situation been dealt with according to the law - good or bad (for the person or situation).
DeleteThe reactions of being sinned against vary for each character. Wesley and Fezzik like to play fairly in a fight, but Wesley is more merciful to his enemies. Buttercup doesn’t fight that much, but in the scene where Humperdink, Wesley, and her meet together for the first time, I interpreted she wants mercy to those she loves, but justice to evil. As everyone has said, Inigo would avenge, and deal justice in his own eyes specifically to the man who murdered his father. It is his goal throughout the movie to “put his father’s soul to rest” by killing the six-fingered man. Therefore, I believe vengeance is dealt more than justice in the movie. Justice is giving someone what they deserve, but vengeance is taking matters in your own hands and giving what you think they deserve, and in most cases, it’s the worst pain possible that someone can inflict. Vengeance is wanting someone to suffer, but justice is atonement for crimes. Because of sin, we all deserve to die, that is our justice in God’s eyes. Montoya, however, took matters into his own hands, did not look for output from God, and killed the six-fingered man the way he believed justifiable, but it was vengeance. The Bible goes against this, because in Romans 12, multiple verses say how to treat your enemy: verse 14 says, “Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them” next, in verse 17, it says, “Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all” and finally, as Rachel Strothkamp has said, in verses 19, but also 20 it says, “Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, ‘Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.’ To the contrary, ‘if your enemy is hungry feed them; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Montoya disobeys this passage, he doesn’t car about his father’s killer, all he wants is for him to die.
ReplyDeleteFor this film, I am pretty sure only revenge is taken by people. There is some justice, but it just happens; not by other's doings. The reason why it is revenge is because it is for the wrongdoing against another is repaid for by humans, usually in violence. Justice can only be done with perfect reason; it also can't be sinful. Justice is repaying with fair punishment for the wrongdoing. Revenge is an outburst of anger towards someone and is found to be fair within you, but not to the other person. When Westley challenged Vizzini to the drinking competition, he didn't give him a chance. He might not have been angry, but what he found fair in his mind was not to Vizzini. That means it is revenge.
ReplyDeleteThe way you fix revenge is to obey the second table. In Romans 13:9-10, it says, "The commandments... are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does not harm your neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." By not harming your neighbor, we avoid revenge so that God can take justice upon the evildoer.
DeleteThe six fingered man did deserve to die but he did deserve a fair trail as well. God says let the Government take measures to ensure the safety of the people and Inigo didn't do that he just killed the man for which Inigo needs to be brought to justice for. Although the six fingured man did kill he should have brought to justice in a fair way and we may all want him or die in the end but every one deserves a chance to live.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I completely agree, but I not so sure the Bible does. Remember the test we took on justice/mercy/grace? Well on the second essay page there was a picture of the guy who killed a lot of people, and then below that there was comments about him. I chose to skip that one because I couldn't understand why the one nice comment about how he should live was bad. After the test we talked about it and the reason why it was wrong was because everyone does deserve to die. It is through Jesus that we are redeemed and saved. Therefore the six-fingered man did deserve to die although it was not Inigo's job to bring forth that.
DeleteThat test question was all about how he said that the killer deserves to live. He said,"Just throw him in prison. No one deserves to die." As christians we believe that we were all born sinners. We also believe that all sin is equal. Finally, we believe that we deserve punishment for our sin but Christ payed that punishment when he died on the cross. When you put it all together, us Christians believe that we all deserve to die. Therefore, you were right in saying that the six-fingured man deserved to die but Inigo was not right to judge him and then murder him as revenge.
DeleteIn the movie there is a lot of revenge going on in this movie. To start off Inigo wants revenge on the 6 fingered man because the man killed his father. In the bible it tells us to not take revenge on other people and to let God bring them to justice. Inigo does not do this and kills the six fingered man after plotting for the entire movie about how he will kill him. In this movie there is some justice as well. In the end Wesley restrains Humperdinck after Humperdinck had been plotting to kill Buttercup on their wedding night so he could start a war with Gilder.
ReplyDeleteWhen characters are wronged by others they tend to seek justice in the form of revenge. In the film revenge is shown whenever Inigo searches for the six-fingered man because the six-fingered man killed his father. Revenge is seeking your own satisfaction for the crime that has been committed. Justice on the other hand is the rightful punishment that is seen upon by a group of people that are unbiased to the action. Revenge, like the revenge shown in the movie, can become our idol if we hold onto it for a long time. Some of the time even after revenge has been accomplished the person will still not feel satisfied because the revenge has now become a part of them and has been rooted in their soul.
ReplyDeleteTo Izzy Clawson:
DeleteI agree with you that a lot of the characters seek justice in the form of revenge when they are wronged. You also made a good point about how revenge can become our idol if we let it. I had never thought about revenge in this way. Romans 12:19 says: "Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord." I think that revenge can almost say that you can handle the situation better than God can.
Rachel, I love that verse you chose, and I think it works great in this situation. I think it says that even when we do want revenge on another person, do not because it is not for us to judge. God will do with the person whatever he thinks is right.
DeleteI found that when characters were wronged by others in this film they would seek revenge. Either by killing them or harming something that they care about. There were many examples of this that you could use from this film. Inigo and the six-fingered man, Wesley and Prince Humperdinck, as well as Humperdinck wanting to start a war with another country. In these situations each character had a different way to respond. In the beginning Wesley showed Fizzik and Inigo mercy by not killing them. Where, Humperdinck's solution seemed to be to punish/kill them. Which depending on the situation would either be mercy or justice. There is definitely revenge taken in this film, but also a little bit of justice. Wesley was going to not kill, but make Humperdinck hideous at the end of the movie. He is not able to do this however, and escapes with Buttercup. I think that justice is making it fair and revenge is like satisfying the person or people who suffered.
ReplyDeleteFor this section, I thought these verses were very helpful..Matthew 5:38-39 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."
ReplyDeleteAlso, the verse 1 Thessalonians 5:15 "See that no one repays anyone evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to everyone." I think these two verses show how God doesn't want us to seek revenge on each other, but to love each other. Just because someone else sins, doesn't make it right for you to do it back.
Mr. Scott's class is finished with the project.
ReplyDelete